What do you think? Here is testimony from the fourth January 6th Hearing (6.21.22) on the Capitol attack and the 2020 Presidential election. The following are interchanges between Representative Adam Schiff of California and Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers:
SCHIFF: Speaker Bowers, thank you for being with us today. Before we begin with the questions I have prepared for you, I want to ask you about a statement that former President Trump issued, which I received just prior to this hearing. Have you had a chance to review that statement?
BOWERS: My Council called from Arizona and read it to me, yes.
SCHIFF: And in that statement, former President Trump begins by calling you a RINO, and then references a conversation in November 2020 in which he claims that you told him that the election was rigged, that he had won Arizona. Did you have such a conversation with the President?
BOWERS: I did
SCHIFF: And that part that I read to you, is that false?
BOWERS: Anyone who said that I said that the election was rigged, that would not be true.
SCHIFF: And when the former President in a statement today claimed that you told him threat he won in Arizona, is that also false.
BOWERS: That is also false.
SCHIFF: Mr. Bowers, I understand that after the election you received a phone call from President Trump and Rudy Giuliani in which they discussed the result of the Presidential election in Arizona, particularly allegations of election fraud. During that conversation, did you ask Mr. Giuliani for proof of these allegations of election fraud he was making?
BOWERS: On multiple occasions, yes.
SCHIFF: And when you ask him for evidence what did he say?
BOWERS: He said they did have proof. I asked him, do you have names? He said they did have proof. He said they have 200,000 illegal immigrants, five or six thousand dead people, et cetera. I said, do you have their names? Yes. Will you give them to me? Yes. The President interrupted and said give the man what he needs Rudy. He said, I will.
SCHIFF: So Mr. Giuliani was claiming in the call that there were hundreds of thousands of undocumented people and thousands of dead people who had reportedly voted in the election?
SCHIFF: And did you ask him for evidence of that?
BOWERS: I did?
SCHIFF: Did you ever receive from him that evidence either during the call or after the call. Or to this day?
SCHIFF: And at some point did Mr., Giuliani ask one of the other attorneys on his team to help him out with the evidence?
BOWERS: He did. He asked Jen Ellis. Do we have the proof Miss Ellis? And she said yes. I said I want the names, do you have the names? Yes. Do, you have how they voted? Yes, we have all the information. I said, can you get me that information? Did you bring it with you? She said No, it’s not with me, but we can get it to you.
SCHIFF: At some point did one of them make a comment that they did not have evidence but they had a lot of theories?
BOWERS: That was Mr. Giuliani.
SCHIFF: What exactly did he say?
BOWERS: He said we’ve got a lot of theories, we just don’t have the evidence. I don’t know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didn’t think it through…
SCHIFF: During any of the meetings, did anyone ever provide you evidence to affect the outcome of the election in Arizona?
BOWERS: No one provided me such evidence, ever.
SCHIFF: Did the President call you again in that later December?
BOWERS: Yes sir, he did.
SCHIFF: Did you tell the President that you support him, that you voted for him, and that you are not going to do anything illegal for him?
BOWERS: I did.
SCHIFF: Nevertheless, John Eastman, his lawyer called you and said he had a specific ask that would have required you to do just what you told the President you wouldn’t do, something that would violate your oath, is that correct?
BOWERS: That is correct.
SCHIFF: And what did Dr. Eastman want you to do?
BOWERS: That we should re-certify the electors because we had the authority to do so. I don’t recall him saying sufficient evidence, but there was strong reason to do that. I said again, I took an oath and to do that would be counter to my oath. He said, my suggestion would be to just do it and let the courts figure it all out. I declined.
SCHIFF: And you told Dr. Eastman you did not believe there was legal support to justify what he was asking, but he still wanted you to do it, effectively let the courts work it out?
BOWERS: I said you should know there’s no way that could happen.
SCHIFF: In your view what he was asking you to do would have violated your oath to the Constitution of both the united states and the state of Arizona.
BOWERS: Yes, sir.
SCHIFF: We just heard in that video and aide to the White House Chief of Staff telling the Committee that the White House Counsel’s office felt that this fake electors plan was not legally sound. Nevertheless, the Trump campaign went forward with the scheme anyway. Speaker Bowers, were you aware fake electors had been in Phoenix on December 14th to cast electoral votes for President Trump?
BOWERS: I was not.
SCHIFF: When you learned these electors had met and sent the electoral votes to Washington, what did you think?
BOWERS: Well, I thought of the book, The Gang that Can’t Shoot Straight. I just thought this is, this is a tragic parody.
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